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Forum Home > General Discussion > Ohio Motorcycle Endorsement Laws for first year

Kevin Neal
Administrator
Posts: 3

I have wrote Ohio Governor, Medina and Brunswick Mayors, Akron Beacon Journal, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Medina Gazzette, AMA, and Fox 8 News. Here is the email I sent:

To Whom This May Concern,

 

I have a question concerning the Ohio Motorcycle Endorsement Law. There is a lot of confussion as to what is law for a first year endorsed rider. The confussion is that, a first year endorsed rider has to follow the same restrictions as a rider with temporary motorcycle permit. I find no evidence of this in the Ohio Revised Code section 4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and snowmobiles, it basically states that the only restriction is that a first year endorsed rider must wear a helmet. I mean no disrespect in this email, I am just wanting to clear this up and make sure that we are with in the law requirements.

Here is the discussion about this in the CBR Forum:

 

Trendsettas:

 

In Ohio, there have been some unclear definition of the laws concerning people who just got there endorsement. Here is an example of what I am talking about:

 

Tonight I got stopped on my bike I have had my motorcycle endorsement for 9 months. I am an MC novice until June. As far as I know, and all that's in the Motorcycle Operator's Manual, the only restriction for an MC novice is they have to wear a helmet. All motorcyclists are considered novice in their first year of having a motorcycle license/endorsement, but the cop said I wasn't allowed to ride at night! He followed me home and said if he saw me out at night again he would have my bike towed at my expense! I can't find any laws about MC novice riders in Ohio other than the helmet law. Please help me out I ride all the time including at night but now I can't until I find out for sure that it's legal! I need some printable evidence to carry with me just in case.

One of there references stated to go to 4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and snowmobiles. I went there and it's still no clear. So is there anyone out there that can clear all this confusion up? If any of you are judges or attorneys, can you make this stuff in plain english so the average person can understand it, so that they know there rights as a motorcyclist?

This is the only real thing that I can find.... Ohio State Motorcycle Laws.... this is crazy... It shouldn't be this difficult should it? Where are you politians at? LMAO

Sjona2011:

 

No clue about Ohio but here in Indiana as soon as you get your endorsment all 'restrictions' are lifted

Jveach:

 

My truck has historic tags, which means by law. That It can be driven whenever, Just not suppose to be for everyday use. I had a cop pull me over one night and have it towed because he said it could only be used for driving in car show's and stuff. Which is not the case or how the law Is written. It got threw out of court but still at a loss to me of about 200 bucks due to the tow fee and the wrecker to get it back home ( the cop put on the ticket it couldn't be released unless towed home ).... It was complete B.S. and I was out 200 bucks because a cop didn't know the laws he is suppose to enforce. Worst of all the cop was a Kentucky D.O.T trooper. That's the only laws he is suppose to know!

Vfrman:

 

Too bad you can't take these clowns to court for damages. I know $200 isn't a whole lot, but come on!

As for the original question, I am not sure about Ohio. I know in Utah you used to be able to go to the DMV and get a learners permit without even taking any sort of test. That permit restricted riding to no passengers, day time only, and not on the freeway. You could ride with that permit until you felt you could pass the test and get the normal endorsement. Once you have the endorsement, you have a full license and can ride anywhere it is legal to ride a motorcycle.

From the looks of the link you provided, 4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and snowmobiles, it is very clear that an operator who holds a TEMPORARY INSTRUCTION PERMIT may not ride at night or any time headlights are required, with a passenger, or a limited access highway. The only restriction a "novice" rider has is the requirement to wear a helmet.

Bottom line... wear a helmet and print a copy of the Ohio code. If you get stopped and the cop thinks you are in violation, don't argue. Politely ask him or her to explain the code to you so you won't be in violation again (even if you don't think you are in violation now). Arguing with the cop is rarely a good idea. I used this very technique when I lived in Japan (I am in the military) and the military cops tried to give me a ticket for moving my license plate so my intercooler wasn't blocked. The rules said it must be permanently attached to the front of the car, nothing more. Well, they gave me a ticket anyway but I fought it and won.

Trendsettas:

 

There is no confusion as to what a rider with temps can do, but the confusion is that when a person gets the endorsements. I have heard that the first year of having your endorsement, you have to follow the same laws as a temporary permit rider, but I can't find proof of this nor proof that's is wrong. The law should clearly state what it intends by clear definition.

 

Vfrman:

 

If there is no proof of the requirement, than it does not exist. How can you find proof to the contrary? That is like proving a negative. It isn't possible.

It also doesn't pass the common sense test. If the requirements for both the same, then why have both? There HAS to be a difference.

 

Trendsettas:

 

I totally agree! However, people are being stopped and messed with because they think that they are with in the requirements of the law. There has to be something that clearly defines this!

Vfrman:

 

I guess the only way is to take it on the chin and then fight it in court. I would also ask the AMA to get involved.

Trendsettas:

 

That's what I would like to do, but honestly, I don't know how to go about that. I'm not concerned for myself, but for fellow riders in this situation and riders that are just begining. I just think that it should be more clearer for people to understand.

 

Vfrman:

 

Sounds like an enforcement education issue....the officers all misunderstand the law. You could also try contacting the state police and seeing if they can send out a memo or something that clarifies the procedure.

Try this to contact the AMA...

Contact

Explain it to them and see if there is anything they can do to help.

Adrenalnjunky:

 

The laws here are very clear. It depends on if you are a Temporary Permit, or Driver's License holder if the Officer was correct. The story you posted did not establish what type of license the rider held.

Per Ohio revised code 4507 (Driver's License Law) a Temporary Instruction Permit is not the same thing as a regular Driver's License. It is a Permit. It does have restrictions: According to state code 4507.05(b)

Quote:

 

The registrar or a deputy registrar, upon receiving from any person an application for a temporary instruction permit and temporary instruction permit identification card to operate a motorcycle or motorized bicycle, may issue such a permit and identification card entitling the applicant, while having the permit and identification card in the applicant’s immediate possession, to drive a motorcycle under the restrictions prescribed in section 4511.53 of the Revised Code, or to drive a motorized bicycle under restrictions determined by the registrar. A temporary instruction permit and temporary instruction permit identification card to operate a motorized bicycle may be issued to a person fourteen or fifteen years old.

That establishes that yes, you can have a temporary permit, with a motorcycle endorsement. This allows a driver with this type of permit to operate a vehicle, including the motorcycle, only during daylight hours, no passengers, and wearing a helmet.

If you have a regular Drivers License (can operate the vehicle without having a licensed driver in the vehicle with you, at night, with no restrictions) with a motorcycle endorsement correct, and the endorsement is less than 1 year old, thereby requiring you to carry the "Novice" designation.

Code 4507.13 Contents and characteristics of driver's license:

 

Quote:

 

Every driver’s or commercial driver’s license displaying a motorcycle operator’s endorsement and every restricted license to operate a motor vehicle also shall display the designation “novice,” if the endorsement or license is issued to a person who is eighteen years of age or older and previously has not been licensed to operate a motorcycle by this state or another jurisdiction recognized by this state. The “novice” designation shall be effective for one year after the date of issuance of the motorcycle operator’s endorsement or license.

 

Those Codes define the differences between a Temporary Permit, and a Driver's License, and indicate that you can have a motorcycle endorsement on each.

If your situation is only for the Driver's License definition, bearing a motorcycle endorsement, and the "Novice" designation (requiring wearing a helmet, regardless of age) then the code here in 4511.53 makes clear distinction between Novice and Temporary Permit operation.

4511.53(B):

 

Quote:

 

No person shall operate or be a passenger on a snowmobile or motorcycle without using safety glasses or other protective eye device. No person who is under the age of eighteen years, or who holds a motorcycle operator’s endorsement or license bearing a “novice” designation that is currently in effect as provided in section 4507.13 of the Revised Code, shall operate a motorcycle on a highway, or be a passenger on a motorcycle, unless wearing a protective helmet on the person’s head, and no other person shall be a passenger on a motorcycle operated by such a person unless similarly wearing a protective helmet. The helmet, safety glasses, or other protective eye device shall conform with rules adopted by the director of public safety. The provisions of this paragraph or a violation thereof shall not be used in the trial of any civil action.

 

This is the only language in "4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and snowmobiles." that pertains to you.

If you had a Temporary Permit, w/ the Motorcycle endorsement, then 4511.53(B) applies to you, plus 4511.53(c)(1 & 2)

For space saving 4511.53(c)(1) only states you have to wear a helmet.

 

Quote:

 

(2) No person shall operate a motorcycle with a valid temporary instruction permit and temporary instruction permit identification card issued by the registrar pursuant to section 4507.05 of the Revised Code in any of the following circumstances:

(a) At any time when lighted lights are required by division (A)(1) of section 4513.03 of the Revised Code;

(b) While carrying a passenger;

(c) On any limited access highway.

SO - short story - if the driver is on a Temp Permit - can't drive anything @ night car or motorcycle. If the driver holds a non-restricted regular Drivers License w/ Motorcycle endorsement, and the "Novice" designation, you can drive at night, as long as you are wearing a helmet, as clearly outlined in Ohio Revised Code 4511.53(B). The Officer was citing 4511.53(C) which only applies to the Temporary Permit holder.

The only thing I left out - the DMV (Registrar) can place restrictions on a regular driver's license: Stuff like "must be wearing corrective eyewear" or "daytime only".

I was assuming that in this situation, the driver's regular license did not have any of these restrictions, as those restrictions would certainly apply to the motorcycle as well.

 

Vfrman:

 

He already said the rider had the motorcycle endorsement on his license, but was within one year of getting said endorsement so is considered a "novice". This is why the police made the rider go home. There is no language that I could find in the Ohio code that deals with "novice" riders, except that they must wear a helmet.

 

Adrenalnjunky:

 

I guess that's what I was trying to say - there is nothing murky about the Novice designation if you have a normal unrestricted drivers license. All that Novice restricts you to is having to wear a helmet, regardless of your age, for a period of one year. Nothing else is required, by law, of a Novice rider according to the law on the books.

If it isn't in that code, right there, that any other restrictions are on Novice riders with normal Drivers Licenses, then it is not "law". The officer in question is not correct if he tells you otherwise.

Does that mean he can't pull you over and tell you to do something that is incorrect? No. And unless you are eloquently spoken, and have all of this stuff memorized, and he's in a debating mood, you probably don't want to get into an argument on the side of the road during a traffic stop. Disobeying the commands of a law officer is a good way to end up in the back seat of a patrol car. Even if the officer is incorrect, about as far as I would push the conversation is to advise him that you are aware of the law regarding a Novice designation, and that only Temporary Permit holders are not allowed to ride @ night. If he disagrees, maybe all you could do is ask him to confer with his shift supervisor, or request another patrol officer to discuss it with him. Maybe some of the LEO's around the forum could chime in on what the proper way to ask for something like that in a traffic stop is, or the best way to try and file a complaint with the department afterward. But ultimately, you don't want to get in an arguing match with a officer, on the side of the road, at night. You're not going to win once it gets to that point.

You might want to try contacting the police department public relations officer and informing him of the stop, and what you were incorrectly told. He/She should be able to inform you pf the proper limits of the law, and should be able to add a note to the training/briefing agenda for patrol officers as a quick refresher that Novice riders are allowed to ride @ night if their DL allows it.

My only other question, why were you pulled over anyway? Typically you won't get pulled over, while wearing a helmet, so an officer can check your license type. How could he, what is his justification? You looked like a Novice under that helmet? You looked young behind that face shield? He just had a feeling you might be not allowed to drive @ night? Doesn't add up.

It is actually illegal in your state for an officer to perform a traffic stop for the sole reason of if they suspect the driver is a Temporary Permit holder that is in violation of the restrictions on that Permit.

Doesn't mean he can't pull you over for any other traffic violation instead, and then check your license.

My state has a BS law on the books since the 60's that simply states something to the effect of "no motor vehicle's exhaust may be altered to be louder than the original manufacturer's equipment" Nothing else. THere is no acoustical specification. It doesn't mean I can't put different exhaust on my vehicles, it just can't be louder than stock. They have no chart of how loud a 1992 CBR600 F2 is from the factory, and these officers don't have sound meters to test it with anyway. But they can pull you over to "assess" the loudness of you exhaust, and check for everything else too (license/insurance/registration/inspection/DWI, etc...) It's just a loophole to start a traffic stop to check everything else they wanna check.

Trendsettas:

 

Here in Northeast Ohio, the police cars has cameras mounted to them and they automatically run your plates. If you have a clear, unrestricted driver's license and just been endorsed with motorcycle license, this is the person we are talking about. Lets assume the person has no warrants or anything of that nature. With the example I started off with, it doesn't appear that the rider did anything. It appears he was pulled over because he was a first year endorsed rider. I agree with you, there is nothing that states that all restrictions are lifted except for the helmet on your first year of being endorsed. As a rider myself, I just would like to clear all this up for myself and fellow riders as to what the law is for a first year endorsed rider. Like I stated before, I don't want to be pulled over and told to go home or risk getting a ticket or something of that affect if I am clearly not breaking the law. But "Clearly" is the key word, am I or am I not breaking the law if I'm on the Highway, riding at night, etc? This is the question that we in Ohio would like to know! I agree, if there are Officers in this forum, please inform us about this. Point us in the direction where it clearly states the law of this. If the only restriction for a first year endorsed rider is wearing a helmet, please point us in the direction of this law so that we maybe able to print it out and carry it with us, in the invent of this happening to us.

 

As you can see, there is some confussion with this. We need help in figuring this out, can you point us in the right direction that clearly spells it out for us?

 

Thank you for your time and consideration, and we look forward hearing from you

 

--

Kevin Neal

Co-President of Trendsettas

Personal Page: Kevin Neal

Email

February 9, 2012 at 12:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Kevin Neal
Administrator
Posts: 3

Email from American Motorcyclist Association‏ about this topic:

 

Dear Kevin,

In Ohio you are a “novice” for the first year after you get your endorsement. A novice carries all the privileges of a regular motorcycle endorsement, with the exception that novices are required to wear a helmet. Because the operator is required to wear a helmet, any passengers are also required to wear a helmet for the operator’s “novice” year.

 I hope this information is helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me either through this email or at the telephone number below.

 Sincerely,

 Marie Esselstein

Government Affairs Assistant

American Motorcyclist Association

13515 Yarmouth Dr.

Pickerington, OH 43147

(800) AMA-JOIN

(614) 856-1900, ext. 1224

 

--

Kevin Neal

Co-President of Trendsettas

Personal Page: Kevin Neal

Email

February 9, 2012 at 2:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Kevin Neal
Administrator
Posts: 3

Another email from AMA:

Attached is ORC 4511.53, which covers motorcycle temporary licensing and the restrictions imposed on holders of the TIPIC (Temporary Instruction Permit Identification Card).

The first highlighted paragraph covers the “novice” rider and shows the helmet requirement.

The rest of the highlighted paragraphs cover the TIPIC holder.

The section you are interested in is quoted here:

“No person shall operate or be a passenger on a snowmobile or motorcycle without using safety glasses

or other protective eye device. No person who is under the age of eighteen years, or who holds a

motorcycle operator’s endorsement or license bearing a “novice” designation that is currently in effect

as provided in section 4507.13 of the Revised Code, shall operate a motorcycle on a highway, or be a

passenger on a motorcycle, unless wearing a protective helmet on the person’s head, and no other

person shall be a passenger on a motorcycle operated by such a person unless similarly wearing a

protective helmet. The helmet, safety glasses, or other protective eye device shall conform with rules

adopted by the director of public safety. The provisions of this paragraph or a violation thereof shall

not be used in the trial of any civil action.”

The direct link to the statute is:http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.53

4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and

snowmobiles.

(A) For purposes of this section, “snowmobile” has the same meaning as given that term in section

4519.01 of the Revised Code.

(B) No person operating a bicycle shall ride other than upon or astride the permanent and regular seat

attached thereto or carry any other person upon such bicycle other than upon a firmly attached and

regular seat thereon, and no person shall ride upon a bicycle other than upon such a firmly attached

and regular seat.

No person operating a motorcycle shall ride other than upon or astride the permanent and regular seat

or saddle attached thereto, or carry any other person upon such motorcycle other than upon a firmly

attached and regular seat or saddle thereon, and no person shall ride upon a motorcycle other than

upon such a firmly attached and regular seat or saddle.

No person shall ride upon a motorcycle that is equipped with a saddle other than while sitting astride

the saddle, facing forward, with one leg on each side of the motorcycle.

No person shall ride upon a motorcycle that is equipped with a seat other than while sitting upon the

seat.

No person operating a bicycle shall carry any package, bundle, or article that prevents the driver from

keeping at least one hand upon the handle bars.

No bicycle or motorcycle shall be used to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it

is designed and equipped, nor shall any motorcycle be operated on a highway when the handle bars or

grips are more than fifteen inches higher than the seat or saddle for the operator.

No person shall operate or be a passenger on a snowmobile or motorcycle without using safety glasses

or other protective eye device. No person who is under the age of eighteen years, or who holds a

motorcycle operator’s endorsement or license bearing a “novice” designation that is currently in effect

as provided in section 4507.13 of the Revised Code, shall operate a motorcycle on a highway, or be a

passenger on a motorcycle, unless wearing a protective helmet on the person’s head, and no other

person shall be a passenger on a motorcycle operated by such a person unless similarly wearing a

protective helmet. The helmet, safety glasses, or other protective eye device shall conform with rules

adopted by the director of public safety. The provisions of this paragraph or a violation thereof shall

not be used in the trial of any civil action.

(C)(1) No person shall operate a motorcycle with a valid temporary instruction permit and temporary

instruction permit identification card issued by the registrar of motor vehicles pursuant to section

4507.05 of the Revised Code unless the person, at the time of such operation, is wearing on the

person’s head a protective helmet that conforms with rules adopted by the director.

(2) No person shall operate a motorcycle with a valid temporary instruction permit and temporary

instruction permit identification card issued by the registrar pursuant to section 4507.05 of the Revised

Code in any of the following circumstances:

(a) At any time when lighted lights are required by division (A)(1) of section 4513.03 of the Revised

Code;

(b) While carrying a passenger;

(c) On any limited access highway.

(D) Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting the carrying of a child in a seat or trailer

that is designed for carrying children and is firmly attached to the bicycle.

(E) Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor

misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or

pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty

of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has

been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section

is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree.

Amended by 129th General Assembly File No. 7, HB 114, § 101.01, eff. 6/29/2011.

Effective Date: 01-01-2004; 09-21-2006; 2008 HB562 09-22-2008

Lawriter - ORC - 4511.53 Operation of bicycles, motorcycles and snowmobiles. Page 2 of 2

http://

--

Kevin Neal

Co-President of Trendsettas

Personal Page: Kevin Neal

Email

February 9, 2012 at 3:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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